Here is a video about four of our earliest manuscripts for Romans 9:5,
just to give a visual representation of the lack of punctuation that I was
referring to, and the interpretation difficulties of whether Paul is referring
to Christ as God, or is speaking about God the Father.
YOUTUBE VIDEO LINK: Romans 9:5 and Our Earliest Manuscripts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_bFlX9Bhco
English
Standard Version – Romans 9:5
“To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race,
according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever.
Amen”
Romans 9:5 – Restoration Study Bible, 04th Edition
“Whose are the fathers, and of whom as
concerning the flesh Messiah came, who is over all, Elohim blessed forever.
Amen”
ARTICLE 1:
The below article has been searched and outsourced from the website of https://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/ao-speaker-confusion.html
Ro. 9:5
The final example in
this study, while not strictly a "speaker-confusion" trick, is so
closely related that it will be included in that category anyway. It is really
a confusion of subjects rather than speakers that we find in
some trinitarian interpretations of this scripture.
Ro. 9:5 - " ... Christ came, who is
over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." - KJV.
This is the scripture
that A Catholic Dictionary calls "the strongest statement
of Christ's divinity in St. Paul, and, indeed, in the N[ew] T[estament]."
- p. 815.
The Jerusalem Bible (Roman
Catholic) renders it, like the equally trinitarian KJV, in such a
way as to make Christ appear to be God: "Christ who is above all, God for
ever blessed! Amen."
And the very
trinitarian The NIV Study Bible,
1985, in a note for Ro. 9:5, calls it:
"One of
the clearest statements of the deity of Jesus Christ found
in the entire NT, assuming the accuracy of the translation (see NIV text
note)."
Highly-regarded
trinitarian NT scholar, F. F. Bruce writes concerning Ro. 9:5:
"God who is
over all be blessed for ever. The relation of these words to those which
precede is disputed. RSV takes them as
an independent ascription of praise to God, prompted by the
mention of God's crowning his many blessings on Israel by sending them the
Messiah (similarly NEB, GNB)."
Bruce then gives
reasons for and against such an understanding and concludes with:
"It is, on the
other hand, impermissible to charge [accuse] those who prefer to treat the
words as an independent doxology with Christological
unorthodoxy. The words can indeed be so treated, and the decision
about their construction involves a delicate assessment of the balance of
probability this way and that." – p. 176, The Letter of Paul to
the Romans, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, Revised Ed., Eerdmans
Publ., 1985.
However, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology is
forced to acknowledge that even if such a trinitarian
rendering of the Greek were accurate,
"Christ would
not be equated absolutely with God, but only described as being of divine nature
[see the DEF study.],
for the word theos has no article. But this ascription of
majesty does not occur anywhere else in Paul. The much more
probable explanation is that the statement is a doxology [praise]
directed to God." - Vol. 2, p. 80, 1986.
Trinitarian scholar
John L. McKenzie also admits:
"Paul's normal
usage is to restrict the noun [`God'] to designate the Father (cf 1 Co 8:6),
and in Rm 9:5 it is very probable that the concluding words
are a doxology, `Blessed is the God who is above all.'"
– p. 318, Dictionary of the Bible, Macmillan Publ., 1979 printing.
The trinitarian United Bible Societies
(UBS) makes the same admission:
"In fact, on the
basis of the general tenor of his theology it was considered tantamount
to impossible that Paul would have expressed Christ's
greatness by calling him `God blessed for ever'." And, "Nowhere else
in his genuine epistles does Paul ever designate ho christos [`the
Christ'] as theos [`God' or `god']." - p. 522, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament,
United Bible Societies, 1971.
The UBS has therefore punctuated their
NT Greek text in such a way as to show the separateness of Christ and God at
Ro. 9:5.
We
also find in the trinitarian The Expositor’s Greek Testament (Vol.
two, p. 659): “I agree with those who would put a colon or a period at σάρκα [sarka -
‘flesh’], and make the words that follow refer not to Christ but to the
Father.”
Even A Catholic Dictionary admits
the possibility that the scripture in question is really a doxology directed to God and not to
Jesus:
"There is no
reason in grammar or in the context which forbids us to translate `God, who is
over all, be blessed for ever, Amen.' - a doxology suddenly introduced,
but quite in St. Paul's manner (Gal. 1:5; cf. Rom. 1:25; 2 Cor. 11:31)." -
p. 815.
And this statement is
from the very same Trinitarian reference work that calls Ro. 9:5
"the strongest statement of Christ's divinity" in
the entire New Testament!! If this is the "strongest" such
statement, where does that put the rest of the trinity "proof"?
Illustrating the high
probability that the last part of Romans 9:5 is directed as a doxology to
the Father, not to Jesus, are these translations of Ro. 9:5 found
in trinitarian Bibles where the statement in question is not directed
to Jesus:
The Revised Standard Version (RSV), 1971
ed. - "... of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God
who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen." - See p. 165, So Many Versions? (SMV),
Zondervan, 1983.
The New American Bible (NAB), 1970 ed. - "... from them
[Israelites] came the Messiah (I speak of his human origins). Blessed
forever be God who is over all!"
The New American Bible (NAB), 1991 ed. - "[From the Israelites],
according to the flesh, is the Messiah. God who is over all be blessed
forever, Amen."
The New English Bible (NEB), 1961 ed. - "... from them, in
natural descent, sprang the Messiah. May God, supreme above all, be
blessed forever!"
Revised English Bible (REB), 1989
ed. - "... from them by natural descent came the Messiah. May
God, supreme above all, be blessed forever!"
An American Translation (AT), 1975
printing - "... and from them physically Christ came - God who is
over all be blessed for ever!"
Today's English Version (TEV), 1976
ed. - "Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May
God, who rules over all, be praised forever!"
The Living Bible (LB) - "...Christ was one of you ... he who now rules over all
things. Praise God forever!" - Tyndale House Publishers, 1971.
The Bible, A New Translation,
(Mo) by Dr. James Moffatt, 1954 - "[From the Israelites] (so far as
natural descent goes) is the Christ. (Blessed for evermore be the God
who is over all! Amen.)"
New Life Version (NLV) - "Christ himself was born of flesh from this family and
He is over all things. May God be honored and thanked forever."
- Victor Books, 1993.
Not only can Ro.
9:5 be interpreted as having two different statements about two
different subjects (1. Jesus came to earth as
an Israelite, and, 2. Bless God who is over all.),
but that is almost certainly the meaning intended by Paul (compare Ro. 15:5, 6;
Ro. 16:27; 2 Cor. 1:3; Gal. 1:3-5; Eph. 1:3; 1 Tim. 1:16, 17).
Why, even the NIVSB,
which called Ro. 9:5 "One of the clearest statements
of the deity of Jesus Christ found in the entire NT" (see above),
also gave the following in a footnote for Ro. 9:5 as proper alternate
translations of this verse:
"Or Christ,
who is over all. God be forever praised! Or Christ. God
who is over all be forever praised!"
But some Trinitarians
have, instead, run these two separate statements of Jesus and God together in
such a way as to give the impression that they both refer to the same subject:
Jesus. The technique is identical with that of the "speaker confusion
trick" we have been examining, and neither is acceptable as proper
evidence for a "Jesus is God" faith!
[Added 4/2011 thanks to ‘Yahoel’ : “The use of the word eulogetos,
‘blessed,’ which never occurs in the New Testament in
reference to Christ. If we refer eulogetos to God,
our passage [Ro. 9:5] accords with the doxologies Rom. i. 25;
2 Cor. i. 3; xi. 31; and Eph. i. 3. …. [This] strongly favors the reference of
the eulogetos to God. It alone seems to me most
decisive.” (pp. 361-362) - Ezra Abbot, The Authorship of the Fourth
Gospel. (emphasis added.)]
Amen: The last word of Rom. 9:5 is a word which is
often used in the letters of the NT when the writer has expressed some form of
praise to God (doxology).—Ro. 1:25; 11:36; 16:27; Eph. 3:21; Phil. 4:20; 1 Tim. 1:17; 1 Pet. 4:11; 5:11.
SOURCE & CREDIT OF ABOVE ARTICLE INFORMATION AS IT IS: https://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/ao-speaker-confusion.html
Second Article
The below article has been searched and outsourced from the website of
https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/romans-9-5
Romans 9:5
Christ, who is God over all, be praised. (NIV)
1.The
student of the Bible should be aware that the original text had no punctuation,
and thus in some instances there is more than one way a verse can be translated
without violating the grammar of the text (see the notes on Heb. 1:8).
Then how do we arrive at the correct translation and meaning, the one that God,
the Author, meant us to believe? In the majority of cases, the context, both
immediate and remote, will reveal to us what He is trying to say. The entire
Bible fits together in such a way that one part can give us clues to interpret
another part. The serious student of the Bible will glean information from the
scope of Scripture to assist in the interpretation of any one verse. Romans 9:5
is one of the verses that can be translated different ways, and thus the
context and scope of Scripture will help us determine the correct
interpretation. Note from the examples below that translators and translating
committees vary greatly in their handling of Romans 9:5:
·
RSV: “to them belong the
patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who
is over all be blessed forever. Amen.”
·
Moffatt: “the patriarchs are
theirs, and theirs too (so far as natural descent goes) is the Christ. (Blessed
for evermore be the God who is over all! Amen.)”
·
KJV: “Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the
flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed
for ever. Amen.”
·
NAS: “whose are the fathers,
and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God
blessed forever. Amen.”
·
NIV: “Theirs are the
patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God
over all, forever praised! Amen.”
Although the exact
wording of the above translations differs, they fall into two basic categories:
those that are worded to make Christ into God, and those that make the final
phrase into a type of eulogy or doxology referring to God the Father. The RSV and Moffatt are
outstanding examples of the latter.
2. In The Doctrine of the Trinity, R. S. Franks, a
Trinitarian and the Principal Emeritus of
Western College in Bristol, writes,
It
should be added that Rom. 9:5 cannot be adduced to
prove that Paul ever thought of Christ as God. The state of the case is found
in the R.V. margin…He [Paul] never leaves the ground of Jewish monotheism. It
has been pointed out that Rom. 9:5 cannot be brought in to question this
statement. On the contrary, God is spoken of by the Apostle as not only the
Father, but also the God of our Lord Jesus Christ” [1]
3. There
is good evidence from both the immediate remote contexts that the last phrase
of this verse is a eulogy or doxology to God the Father. “God over all” and
“God blessed forever” are both used of God the Father elsewhere in the New
Testament (Rom. 1:25; 2 Cor. 11:31; Eph. 1:3; 4:6; 1 Tim. 6:15). In contrast,
neither phrase is ever used of Christ. It would be highly unusual to take
eulogies that were commonly used of God and, abruptly and without comment or
explanation, apply them to Christ.
4. Asking
why the words are even in the text gives us a key to understanding them. Paul
is writing about the way that God has especially blessed the Jews. The verses
immediately before Romans 9:5 point out that God has given them the adoption,
the glory, the covenants, the law, the worship, the promises, the patriarchs
and even the human ancestry of Jesus Christ. How blessed they are! No wonder a
eulogy to God is inserted: “God, who is over all, be blessed forever! Amen.”
5. The
entire context of Romans 9:5 is describing God’s blessings to the Jews, who
have a heritage of being aggressively monotheistic. An insert about Christ
being God seems most inappropriate. This is especially true when we understand
that Paul is writing in a way designed to win the Jews. For example, he calls
them “my kindred in the flesh” (v. 3 – NRSV), and says he
has sorrow and anguish in his heart for them (v. 2 – NRSV). Would he then put into this section a phrase
that he knew would be offensive to the very Jews for whom he is sorrowing and
who he is trying to win? Certainly not. On the contrary, after just saying that
Christ came from the line of the Patriarchs, something about which the Jews
were suspicious, a eulogy to the Father would assure the Jews that there was no
idolatry or false elevation of Christ intended, but that he was part of the
great blessing of God.
Buzzard, pp. 131 and 132,
Farley, pp. 67-69, Morgridge, pp. 111-114, Norton, pp. 203-214, Snedeker, pp.
434-440
Endnote:
1. R. S.
Franks, The Doctrine of the Trinity, (Gerald Duckworth and Co., London, 1953),
pp. 34-36.
Another YouTube Video explaining about the Confusion of the Scripture
in English Translations at Romans 9:5
You Tube Video
Title: Romans 9:5 - God over all is WHO??
Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INhvX5fOLH0
Blan in this video,
the ESV translation that you quoted has been specifically addressed.
